Ali Noorani [00:00:14] This week, our celebration of Immigrant Heritage Month continues with stories of immigration, tradition and identity.
Eric Kwak [00:00:21] I think we need to get to a point where immigration identity is part of the American identity as a whole. And it is accepted as such. I know we used the word minority a lot to represent immigrant experience, but I want to envision a future where we’re not using the word minority anymore, where everyone is accepted as kind of an equal.
Ali Noorani [00:00:47] From the National Immigration Forum. I’m Ali Noorani, and this is Only in America. So last week, we launched Immigrant Heritage Month by looking at the data around immigration and American identity and listening to some of the stories behind the numbers. This week, we’re going to revisit some of those guests, but we’re also going to talk to some new ones to hear more about their heritage and how it informs their sense of being American. We’re going to start with Eric Kwah in Oakland, California. Eric came to the US from South Korea with his family as a child.
Eric Kwak [00:01:21] One of the most vivid memories is actually driving down itself. I remember we arrived in Canada and we stayed at a smaller hotel with some other people who looked like they were college students. And I think they were trying to immigrate to the US as well. And so we got, I think, in like a jeep in the middle of the night and then we drove down. I think it was from Vancouver to Seattle, how I understand it. And then we eventually got on a flight from Seattle to Los Angeles. And being a young kid coming to the United States for the first time, I think I remember just being a little bit shocked, surprised and a little bit awestruck in how things were different. Didn’t really know what to expect at that age. I knew that we were moving far away, but I didn’t know what that really meant at that age. But I eventually picked it up that we were in a new country. We had to learn a new language. And yeah, that’s how it eventually came to be.
Ali Noorani [00:02:30] That culture shock is something many immigrants describe as their first impression of America. For Edilsa Lopez, who we first heard from last week, it was a major part of her first years in the U.S. after moving from Guatemala.
Edilsa Lopez [00:02:43] It was a major shock in world view because I came from a very small village where we didn’t even have to be there. And, you know, it was like a small village within like within a volcano kind of thing, because I actually come from an indigenous group. So my background is indigenous. And like everyone there is like dressed in indigenous clothes and we live in a small, really small village. You know, it’s not like a city or anything like that. So when I came to th U.S. and I saw that it was really, really big shock for me because it was the first time that I learned about slavery or about like all other countries. And like there’s like Bosnia and Russia. I had no idea. And most of them had refugee stories. So I heard like back in the time there was like a Bosnia like genocide. I believe it was like during the time and all the kids from there were in their high school, and they would share their stories. And it was just, wow, you know, we were all the same. It was the a major, I guess, that world view for me. But at the same time, I think that we were reunited with the same story. So it was kind of like homey.
Ali Noorani [00:04:07] Eric also developed a sense of community in his new home.
Eric Kwak [00:04:11] We eventually moved out to Koreatown, which was easier for my family, for my parents, because it’s an ethnic enclave. And I grew up in Koreatown all my childhood since I moved to the United States until graduating high school. That’s basically my community. That’s where I made my friends. That’s where I grew up. That’s where I kind of roam the streets, going to places, going to play basketball, going to restaurants, going to watch movies. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with Koreatown, but it’s it’s very obvious that it’s not ethnic enclave, most of the stores there are in Korean. Most people, a lot of the people there are Korean and Latinx. But yeah, Koreatown is a place of comfort for me. It’s a place that I’m familiar with. It’s a place that if I know that if I visit, it’s going to feel like a community to me, like a place where I belong.
Ali Noorani [00:05:19] However, growing up undocumented meant living with constant uncertainty. So when Eric became a DACA recipient in college, the impact was huge.
Eric Kwak [00:05:28] DACA itself was life changing for me. I think with that’s like just like many other people I got on when I was in college sophomore year. So I think that was one of the most fortunate things to have happen to me. That was before I could work, so I wasn’t looking for a job and being turned away because I didn’t have work authorization. Sophomore year, got DACA was one of the greatest news of my life, and eventually I started working through a work study. And that just gave me a path forward, just the mindset as well that I can continue this education and eventually land somewhere, where I can be financially sustainable and provide for my family. And stuff like that, uh. For as long as I’ve been, I was following the immigration legislations and every time it was struck down, the DREAM Act, I think it was introduced in 2001, but always kept getting struck down, as is now 20 years later. So, I mean, that shows how much of a standstill we’re at in terms of passing any meaningful immigration legislation. But that was a big life changing moment for me. And I work in managing a grant for the local unified school district, but yeah, I mean, I think I’m financially stable enough to not worry too much about my finances. And I enjoy the work I do every day, which is to provide students with resources and opportunities to succeed. Yeah, contrary to what I’ve been hearing from people that have gone into the private industry where they feel burnt out, they feel that they don’t know what they’re doing and why why they’re doing this, they were kind of guided towards it by external factors. And I think I’m fortunate to be in the field that I that I want to be in.
Ali Noorani [00:07:33] Now Eric says his experiences growing up were a major part of his later career decisions and desire to serve his community.
Eric Kwak [00:07:40] I think when I went into college, I didn’t have the luxury of thinking about anything else but making money because I was kind of a necessity. That was what we had got into education for. That was why my parents had taught me that education was important because we needed to be able to make enough money to be able to provide for ourselves comfortably. We didn’t want to suffer from poverty, from fighting about money, from the bickering and like the stress that comes with not having enough money. So that was kind of a luxury I couldn’t afford. But as I went through college, I realize that I have built this sort of empathy through my life experience to people who are suffering, and I thought to myself that that’s probably the best thing I can work for to help people relieve the stress and suffering and the best way I can use my time, and that’s the best way I will be fulfilled in terms of my emotions and my spirit. So that was kind of the switch for me.
Ali Noorani [00:09:05] Jessica Astudillo, who spoke about her Ecuadorian heritage last week, told us that that background was beneficial in her career as a physician.
Dr. Jessica Astudillo [00:09:14] My mom and my dad have both become more naturalized the longer there that they spent here. So they don’t actually practice much traditions that they used to. But one of the a couple of things, though, that have helped me understand a little bit more in the context of health care have been burning eucalyptus tea leaves to get rid of sort of bad energies, but also say, for example, somebody has a cold or, you know, they’re down with the flu. Burning a little bit of that will help cleanse out the virus. And so that’s something that my parents will still occasionally do, but they definitely did it a lot more when we were younger kids. But it does help me understand more about that perspective. If a family member comes in and says, you know, my kid is like we’ve been doing, this definitely helps me connect and understand with them.
Ali Noorani [00:10:04] The centrality of family and passing on traditions is something that Edilsa has taken to the heart, especially since becoming a mother to her young daughter.
Edilsa Lopez [00:10:13] And I will say definately by showing my values and my traditions and expose her to as much experience as I can, that’s how I would love for her to grow. And obviously, every single day I teach her anything that I remember in regards to my own groups, and habitions and values that I that I know because so many thing have been forgotten already. And I wanted to to remember that I’m not to lose that.
Ali Noorani [00:10:44] Edilsa also hopes her own story of coming to the US and the struggles that she faced will hold meaning for her daughter.
Edilsa Lopez [00:10:51] I would say whenever she’s a little bit older, I will definitely share when she understands more about the, you know, kind of who we are and especially who she is and who her mom is, and I definitely have to teach her about. I would say about the amount of privilege that she has now to be a U.S. citizen and then but not to forget about her family, where they came from and how they came from, because it wasn’t easy.
Ali Noorani [00:11:24] And it’s a struggle that Eric saw his own parents go through.
Eric Kwak [00:11:28] When I was in Korea, before we were about to marry my parents, my mom enrolled me in a class to take English class at the school. And at the time, I didn’t really understand what my parents’ mindset was, process was, of course, they were trying to prepare me for America, but I didn’t really understand the seriousness and the direness and that test that my mom had. So not really knowing that of being really just like a shy kid, I used to go to the front of the classroom and not go in the door and just stay out of for like a few weeks. And then my parents, my mom eventually found out that I was ditching class, which I didn’t mean to. I was just shy for no reason at that time, I think. But when I came home one day, my parents had found out, or my mom had found out, and I told her that that I did attend class. And I lied to her as when she got really upset and she brought out what’s called a hochori, which is basically a hitting stick up, just like a stick on your calves. I know the corporal punishment is not good, but kind of that moment is something that I will forever remember, because that’s really what I understood my parents anxiety, nervousness, worry about the future of immigrating to the United States and how serious I should take this experience coming to America. And that’s kind of, I think, set up my mindset for when I came here and how kind of hard I needed to work. I think it’s been tough on us, definitely. One of the best things that have happened to during covid is that we were able to buy a condo for my parents through DACA, actually. So DACA gave me the opportunity to get the Social Security number and to be able to buy a condo, which has been a dream of my mom for for a while now. And she’s been saving a lot of money to be able to do so. So we were able to do that, I think, towards like September. So that was a really bright spot for us. And despite everything that’s been going on. Yes, I think that’s been able to give us some sort of stability.
Ali Noorani [00:14:06] Farah Larrieux, an immigrant from Haiti, also talked about the strengths of her heritage.
Farah Larrieux [00:14:11] Absolutely. I have not lost anything about my identity, where I am, where I come from, and particularly, as I mentioned earlier, the education, the respect, respect for myself, respect for others, and a sense of sharing a fine sense. And this is an example I realized that when Americans send you an email, they go straight to what they are telling you. Hey, it’s Farah this is Kathy and duh, duh, duh, and you go straight to the point. But Haitians, we won’t do that. We say, hey, Kathy, how are you doing? How’s your day? How’s the family? We ask you all these questions. So we asked a question about your well-being and then we will say, you know, I need you – we would like to do a podcast with you. So we’re kind of slow everywhere we go. And every day, I can tell you I have to kind of juggle in this culture. So if I was send an email to an American, I have to go straight to the point. And then after that, I say, hey, how are you doing? Have a good day. But if I do that to a Haitian, iit’s a big no no. Oh, you’re rude. You didn’t ask me how I am before you ask a question?
Ali Noorani [00:15:40] Farah also addressed some of the misunderstandings about her own heritage and identity, and what she wished more Americans understood about her culture.
Ali Noorani [00:15:49] I know that it can be a controversial, but I think it’s interesting for people to know that Vodou it’s not about only negativity, it’s not about killing people. It’s not about evil things. Because Vodou has been portrayed like that in the movies, in the documentaries, in the American Hollywood movies. And then that’s a misperception about Vodou. I know what I’m saying can be controversial because some people would say, no, no, no, she’s not telling the truth. But it is- you have to learn what Vodou is about, and I also to disclose that I am Catholic. But when I was being raised in Haiti, you know, there was this two side of Vodou that you could see because I went to Catholic schools all my life. And in Catholic school, they were portraying Vodou as very bad. But the thing is, a side of my family are all from the countryside of Haiti. And these people, they have their rituals. They still, you know, cultivate and and preserve their history, thier Vodou heritage. And it’s about community. It’s about coming together. It’s about unity. Even I can say that maybe Haitians have lost the sense of unity, but remember that for the slaves in Haiti and history reports, for the slave to get organized and to start the movement to evoke the revolution, it was through Vodou, through the ceremony of Bois Caiman. And it is important for people to understand that Vodou is not a negative thing as in any other religion. And as anything in life, it’s always two sided good against evil, and Vodou is also the same thing, the same religion and I encourage your viewers to learn more about Vodou, and to stop with presenting Vodou as evil. It’s not true. And this has to be also because, you know, based on the legacy of colonialism, that I think the misinformation about Vodou across the years and then that’s why people are still thinking of it in that way. But now with the the power of technology, we can do our research and establish the truth about Vodou or any other religion: Hinduism, Muslim and Judaism. Vodou is the same and Catholicism. And we have to respect that.
Ali Noorani [00:19:19] As much as Immigrant Heritage Month is an occasion of celebration and joy, it’s also an opportunity to remember how much more work there is to be done. Because we often hear the US described as a nation of immigrants, a phrase that does indeed capture the waves immigration has defined inspired American identity, but it’s also a phrase that can obscure other aspects of America’s history, aspects that we still feel the impact of today. When celebrating a nation of immigrants, it’s important to acknowledge what’s left out of that narrative. For example, America’s indigenous communities, and its legacy of forced migration under the slave trade. It’s also important to remember that our immigration laws themselves have a history of racism that is still felt today.
Eric Kwak [00:20:04] Well, I grew up in Los Angeles and I grew up with racial inequality. I went to a school. I was in high school. I went to Los Angeles Unified School District and I was bussed out and middle school because the home school I was supposed to go to had a reputation for teachers not caring enough and pretty bad like scoring, test scoring. So I was bussed out to a score an hour and a half away, which was predominantly white, which was when I kind of began to understand that racial inequity in America. A lot of, you know, microaggression, racism directed towards Asian American students because we are a minority, even among the minority. I think in the school where we’re like only two or three percent of the population. So it’s easy to pick on Asian students. You know, they have a lot of stereotypes that are easy to bully around in middle school being nerds, being not physically, you know big and stuff like that. So it’s kind of when I came to an understanding of how people view race in America, and then that eventually evolved middle school, high school and college. And I realized that this is something that’s not tolerable. We can live much better than this. And I want to work for that. And that’s how I landed in Chicago eventually.
Farah Larrieux [00:21:41] But I also as a TPS recipient, it is important for me to inspire those who are afraid to speak up, those who are on the table because of their immigration status, those who feel like, well, because I’m undocumented or because I have TPS or because I have DACA, I have no rights, I have no voice, I’m helpless. And for me, it’s important to show to these people that, hey, listen, even you undocumented, even if you are a DACA, TPS recipient, you’re not alone, and you have rights. You have your human basic rights because people tend to forget that. People tend to think that because someone is undocumented, well, you have no rights and they are victims of abuse. They are victim of all types of discrimination. And it’s unfortunate and the United States has become a beacon of hope and the land of opportunity, the land of immigrants. But I get to a point to ask myself, is it really the land of immigrants or what type of immigrants? And that’s a conversation also that is important for me to ask myself. If I’m black, I’m from the Caribbean, I’m from Africa, or I’m from Asia, or I’m from the Middle East. Is it the same opportunity for the immigrant that come from Europe or Canada? So or if I come from Latin America, do we have the same rights, the same opportunities, or are we being welcomed the same way?
Farah Larrieux [00:23:33] Edilsa sees her immigrant heritage as a way to address some of the inequality and discrimination a certain immigrant groups, particularly those from indigenous communities, face.
Edilsa Lopez [00:23:44] I can describe myself as like indigenous American because I just think like, you know, America is just kind of like one place and like Central America and then North America. But like I have indigenous roots and backgrounds and a lot of my growth and all my experiences come from indigenous roots and my values also. But a lot of my life has been spent here in the United States and I feel like I already know all the American values and my dreams and my- everything related to the United States is kind of like getting very rooted here. Like I’ve lived more of my life in the United States than in Central America, in Guatemala. But I never forget about my values and kind of where I come from. So I think I just identify myself as an indigenous American, and I will always identify like that. And then when my daughter grows up, I’ll definitely- mostly I think I want to teach her about like indigenous, what the indigenous community is and like where we come from and who we are and our traditions. Because I remember that growing up, my mom never told me anything about indigenous because she was so ashamed of the indigenous community. And the reason is because indigenous communities are very oppressed and looked down also in Guatemala. And she has never liked that I like anything indigenous, like indigenous clothes, like I wanted to wear indigenous clothes, not even the indigenous language at all. And literally, I showed her a documentary about the indigenous community, and her perspective is changing. This actually happened like probably like a few months ago when she came to a realization that she was proud to be of an indigenous background because before she hid it, she never really taught me or said, you know, let’s embrace it. And she was just like, no, don’t wear this colored shirt. Don’t do that, you know. And I just didn’t understand why she was just so ashamed of that. So I hope that, you know, I do different with my daughter, in that I teach her things like a little word or like the clothes, like I said, or that she goes back and learns on her own, kind of like the culture and everything. You know, when you come to the United States, everything is so different, you know, we have so many limitations as far as what we can do, our celebrations, our traditions, like there are so many limitations. Those are really hard to continue. But obviously the things that we do at home always stay. And things like food or your own values, your own habits, they always say, you know. But I will say that I have for sure forgotten a lot of the things that I used to do, when I came to United States. But I will say for sure that there are so many things that I also change around, like in my culture is like, let’s say at a church or with my friends or with my school or any school project, like I would love to bring up with my ethnic background and what I’m proud of. So, for example, like at church, even though I go into a mostly like white church, you know, worship is not the same. Then I always bring up my own, like, own way of being. And if there is any, like, potluck or anything related to that, like, I always bring up my culture, you know, like I’m proud of it. I want to show it and I don’t want to forget it. Or when I’m doing social media, anything related to that, like my mom and I do some like cooking, like we love to cook and have a lot of like indigenous kind of recipe and we love to share them with with other people. Why? Because I don’t want to forget that.
Ali Noorani [00:28:19] So how do we not just celebrate our immigrant heritage, but emphasize it’s centrality to our Americanness? How do we drive home that the vitality of American culture and identity exists not despite immigrant communities, but because of them?
Eric Kwak [00:28:34] I think we need to get to a point where immigration identity is part of the American identity as a whole and is accepted as such. I know we use the word minority a lot to represent the immigrant experience, but I want to envision a future where we’re not using the word minority anymore, where every one is accepted as kind of an equal. Yeah, and I mean, being in education, I think part of the solution I want to just add here is ethnic studies. I think that education as an institution is one of the greatest tools to be able to, I think, move our country towards a more progressive state and teaching ethnic studies and in the classroom. I think if students kind of an awareness of what each of our immigrant communities face, whether that’s Korean American, Chinese American, Mexican American, Guatemalan American, we’re similar in that we came to a new country and we are looking to live a better life, but we all have different cultural backgrounds to be celebrated. And I think once people understand that at that level, in terms of trying to understand where we’re coming from instead of what we see in the media, because that’s not directly representative of of who we are, I think then we can get to a place where the immigration identity is is being accepted more as part of the American identity.
Dr. Jessica Astudillo [00:30:27] Yeah, I absolutely think that the identities are so, so intertwined. It’s impossible to separate one from the other. I mean, as many people will say, America was built on immigrants. They are the backbone of this country. And my parents are now citizens. But they started off as immigrants. They came here with a dream to make a better future for themselves and their children. And so I think it’s so intertwined into your identity as an American. You know, it’s really hard to separate. And even now you have especially during covid, you start realizing that the essential workers, those who work in the restaurant business, those who do farm labor, a lot of them are undocumented, or if they’re not there, they’re immigrants. And so we depend on them so much to really fuel this country. And sometimes we kind of forget that and don’t give that enough credit. So, yes, I do strongly believe that the immigrant identity is very much intertwined with being an American, whether you are a child of immigrants now or you are a child of immigrants decades ago, centuries ago when the first settlers came from, it’s an undeniable part of that.
Ali Noorani [00:31:46] Our guests today have been Jessica Astudillo, Eric Kwah, Farrah Larrieux, and Edilsa Lopez, you can read more about each of this week’s guests on our website, ImmigrationForum.org/podcast. Only in America is going to take a short break for the next few weeks, but we’re going to be back soon. If you like what you hear, subscribe to Only in America, wherever you are listening to this episode. Only in America is produced and edited by Katie Lutz, Joanna Taylor, and Becka Wall. Our artwork and graphics are designed by Karla Leyja. Me, I’m Ali Noorani, and I will talk to you next week.
Underwriting [00:32:24] Support for the National Immigration Forum comes from the Carnegie Corporation of New York, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement and strengthening international peace and security and from Humanity United. When humanity is united, we can bring a powerful force for human dignity.