Ali Noorani [00:00:15] This week, a quick update from Utah and a tease for next week,
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:00:19] sort of a standard conversation about the history of the state of Utah um doesn’t start in 1847 with the arrival of the immigrants or the LDS immigrants or the Mormon immigrants, that we used to call them. That is there is a very rich history here.
Bernardo Castro [00:00:38] I think it creates just awareness of people that are out there like this. And I say that kind of cautiously because the model immigrant approach isn’t something that I necessarily want to push, right? Because everyone is valuable and everyone has contributions that they can do. And I don’t think that necessarily just because I have a college degree or because I’ve never gotten in trouble, I should be the only one to benefit from reform
Ali Noorani [00:01:06] from the National Immigration Forum. I’m Ali Noorani and this is only in America. We’re back on our virtual road trip through Utah today and after a short break to discuss President Biden’s raising of the refugee ceiling, we wanted to look back on what we’ve learned about Utah so far, while we’re also taking a look forward. In the next few weeks, we’ll speak to two people who will offer a different perspective here on Utah’s leadership and immigration. But before we turn to leadership, let’s take a step back. Our first two Utah conversations helped us understand the experiences of immigrants in the history of the Latino community in the state. Dr. Armando Solorzano is an author and associate professor at the University of Utah, where he’s been teaching for 30 years. Bernardo Castro is a Utah dreamer, BYU graduate and a small business owner. We spoke to both of them about how they got where they are today.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:02:07] Well, we came at a time talking about 30, 35 years ago when the university was engaging into the issues of diversity, plurality, inclusivity and put in the University of Utah at the national level in conversation with other universities and getting really into this conversation, post civil rights movement and the issue of bringing academia and some color into the university. And also, like in your case, I was always being very attracted by the state of Utah since again, since I was three years old, I learned in my home country that Utah was far Mexican territory. I knew that. And so, you know, as a descendent from indigenous groups in Mexico and they got the great admiration we have for motherland. I want to I want to know and I want to live in this part of the native people that heavily identify with Mexico.
Bernardo Castro [00:03:27] One of the earliest memories that I have is actually walking to Head Start to a kindergarten type situation with my mom and the I- this the sidewalk was so icy and we slipped and we fell. And I remember, because we’re from southern Mexico, it never snows there. And so that was something that was kind of new to us and a little foreign. But that’s one of my earliest memories of Utah, was how unforgiving the ice and snow can be on the sidewalk, in particular going to high school, taking driver’s ed. In 2005, Utah implemented driving privilege cards for those that were undocumented. And I knew that’s what I was going to get after I talked to my mom about driver’s ed, and she said, you don’t have a social you only have an ITIN card. And this is what we’re able to get with that. And the first version of those driving privilege cards for undocumented people had a giant letter P for privilege in red on the cards. And I remember learning about Scarlet Letter in school and I’m like, man, this is my very own Scarlet Letter. And and I even brought my 2010 driving privilege card. As you can see here, the biggest the biggest word on this card is privilege. And earlier versions, the ones that I had in high school, had that big red key on the card that that easily identified you in any situation. And so I feel like getting a driver’s license is kind of like an American rite of passage for a lot of high schoolers. It’s like one of the steps to freedom, basically, where you can go and kind of govern yourself and go wherever you want to.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:05:20] To me, it was challenging, but most challenging was that even inside the small mexican American, Latinos, or like we call them, minutas, Spanish speaking people, even they deny our history. To me, I have learned a new term at that time, it was called it was called internalized oppression, that even the same groups, they deny the presence.So I had to struggle with that. I had to come up with very concrete ways of making visible the presence of Mexican Americans, Mexicans and Latinos in the state. And it happened, I mean like all findings and findings and great discovery just happen by accident. I was interviewing a very old person. I think she was ninety five years old in southern Utah. And I ask, can you tell me about your history, in Utah? And she said, I don’t have any history. I only have photos. Oh. And I said, can I see the photos? Well, she has amazing photos. Well, you know, Mexican, Mexican-American, Hispanics working in the mines, building the railroad, creating the first religious organizations in any type of divination, either LDS, Mormons or Catholics or other denominations. So I said, well, can I see the pictures? But the pictures were destroyed, you know? And she said, don’t worry, I’m going to put it together with tape. So obviously, we were destroying the pictures at some time. So thus, again, what impressed me the most was the lack of knowledge and the fact that whatever I knew, it didn’t coincide with what I was seeing.
Ali Noorani [00:07:28] Growing up undocumented in a state with a relatively small Latino population, Bernado often experienced feelings of isolation and embarrassment around his status. He saw classmates, parents get deported.
Bernardo Castro [00:07:40] So I think for me, I. I always think that I had a pretty boring childhood. But in reality, when I look back, I realized that I was extremely lucky to have such a boring childhood because I didn’t know that I was part of this elaborate cat and mouse game that undocumented people play with the authorities. And in school I did really well. I got good grades, but I remember one time in particular in middle school where they called everybody down to a room with a Hispanic last names, it doesn’t matter who you were. Anybody that had a Hispanic sounding last name got called down. And the vice principal, he he said, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but some of you might not return to parents today. What had happened was that Swift Plant in Hiram was raided by ICE in 2006. And I remember that was one of the times that I felt really scared and very confused as a kid. I didn’t know what was happening. I do remember that was the last day that I saw some of my friends, because I imagine they must have gone home and not had anybody there. And I didn’t realize at the time, but I was so lucky that my parents weren’t working there. And that continued to allow me to move on with school and move on to high school and start college classes and graduate from community college and then go to BYU and graduate with a degree in business management. And basically it’s, you know, I’m very fortunate and lucky to be where I’m at today. They were just trying to provide for their kids, a lot of them citizen born children that were orphaned, basically, that lost a parent or maybe lost both parents. But they still had to remain here because they were minors or because they were born here, you know. And that communication just was just lost and so much progress was lost because of that raid on the community. And I don’t really know how effective those workplace raids are in curbing illegal immigration. It doesn’t seem like it helps very much.
Ali Noorani [00:09:59] Because I mean, people are still coming for work, right?
Bernardo Castro [00:10:02] That’s right. Any time you have a better life standard here, there’s always going to be people that are determined to make it to the US and provide for their family.
Ali Noorani [00:10:12] Dr. Solorzano also spoke to his experience with law enforcement.
Ali Noorani [00:10:16] I think it was the first time I was kinda put in jail because of a book. I remember it was December. It was snowing. It was time to return the book to the library. And I was walking on the street with my book under my jacket and then a police patrol, you know, approached you and said, drop whatever you have underneath. Well, at that time, I didn’t know what they were looking for. I don’t know their assumptions. I said, Sir, I’m not going to do that. And well they asked me to put, you know, my hands on top of my head and I refused to do all that because I know that if I open my jacket the book was going to fall in the snow. And that is like a desecration in my culture. So I protect that book to the end and let me tell you I was very close to going to jail. I mean, because of this cultural understanding what a book represents or what a book is.
Ali Noorani [00:11:23] Bernardo’s own encounter with law enforcement illustrates the impact of keeping local police duties separate from federal immigration responsibilities.
Bernardo Castro [00:11:32] So funny enough, in high school I was invited to a friend’s party. We went and watched college football game on TV and my mom told me to be back by a certain time and I- I overstayed a little bit. So I sped back home, and I got pulled over for speeding. And my my initial thoughts were, man, this is my last thing in the US. I’m I’m going back to Mexico. And I was so terrified of what that meant. But when the officer took my card, ran everything, brought it back, gave me a speeding ticket, rightfully so, I guess. The only punishment I needed to fear was my mom’s, you know, getting home so late and with a speeding ticket. But I was terrified. I really was.
Ali Noorani [00:12:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just speaks to the importance of local law enforcement. Just, you know, not not not enforcing immigration law and, you know, that could have gone so many different ways.
Bernardo Castro [00:12:32] Yeah, absolutely. And it has for a lot of people, right? But I think something that we’ve talked about before is like the Utah Compact and how that is designed to strengthen communities and really leave the policing to federal agents because state policemen, state authorities should really focus on local issues. That’s where tax dollars are best spent in helping out the community locally and letting federal agents do their job.
Ali Noorani [00:13:01] So what’s next for the Beehive State? Both have great hope for the next generations of Latinos in Utah
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:13:09] It is going to be very, very different. Again, one factor again, going back to religion that we need to take in consideration is that by the year 2035, the majority of Mormons in the world are going to be Latinos. I think we are expecting sixty, about fifty-six, fifty-seven percent of all Mormons in the world. That is going to be reflected in Utah, in what, in what we already call the Latin section of the LDS church. So the church has to change drastically and in many ways, probably in ways where they don’t want to go. Even the way we understand the geography of the state is going to change. I’ll give you an example. In three-four years, we’re going to celebrate that two thousand two hundred I might, I don’t know, fifth anniversary of the Dominguez-Escalante. Well, we know right now that we’re going to reconstruct all those places because in the past, we lost the names that the Dominguez-Escalante expedition had put to the places in Utah. They change it, right? Places like the place, El Sagrado Corazón, Sacred Heart. They call it Manti, of course, right? But I think even the recognition of the geography has to change. I’m engaged now in two projects with national parks, again, it’s going to be happening what is happening in L.A. now with being the second largest city with Mexicans. So probably Salt Lake City will be the city with the largest Latino Mormon population.
Bernardo Castro [00:15:04] I think Utah changes because so I was reading some estimates that said the eligible population for the treatment probably is like two to four and a half million. Right. I just think about how
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:15:17] across the country,
Bernardo Castro [00:15:19] across the country and I think about how that will impact every single state in terms of sales tax and revenue and things like that. People will just have a lot more buying power. And I think about the crazy economic growth Utah has had and how that will just continue to go up if the DREAM Act passes. And that makes me excited because I feel like a lot of people had benefited and profited off that growth here. And I can see that happening even more if the DREAM Act-The Dream and Promise Act is passed. And I think there has never been a better time to start a business. And I say that because I really feel like America is still the land of opportunity. If you’re willing to put in the work, if you’re willing to put in the sacrifice, you can really get out of it whatever you want. You can change your entire lifestyle if you want to. For my wife and I, we saw a need to provide people with more options when it comes to clothing. And that’s something that we decided to do. And I really feel like America is still the land of opportunity. If you’re willing to put into words to put in the sacrifice, you can really get out of it whatever you want. You can change your entire lifestyle if you want to. For my wife and I, we saw a need to provide people with more options when it comes to clothing. And that’s something that we decided to do. And we wanted to always make it part of your presentation important to us in our clothing line. And so we always shoot with people that are of color, people that are a little bit more curvy. Just because we want- representation is important to us. And we want to show that in America anyone can make it.
Ali Noorani [00:17:09] Our upcoming episodes will feature two people who are leaders in their communities. What would Bernado and Dr. Solorzano say to them?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:17:17] Open up a new type of dialog with other, with other political parties.
Bernardo Castro [00:17:26] When I went to Washington and had a few meetings with lawmakers, it really surprised me how much consensus there was on that issue. They’re saying, man dreamers were with dreamers. We love dreamers from both sides of the aisle, but it was always those extras to the legislation that is always like the dreamer part was like the sugar to make the medicine go down. And yeah, I just hope that we’re able to get some good traction on this and things pass.
Ali Noorani [00:18:02] You can learn more about Bernado and Dr. Solorzano at our website: ImmigrationForum.org/podcast. Joining us next week will be Jenny Wilson, the mayor of Salt Lake County. She’s a fifth generation Utahns. And after that, we’re going to hear from Chief Mike Brown from the Salt Lake City Police Department. Stay tuned for his perspective about how law enforcement can be on the front lines of the effort for immigration reform. Hey, I got a question for you. Do you have any questions or thoughts for our upcoming guests? Let us know. And your question may be featured in an upcoming episode of Only in America. One last thing before we go. About a year ago, I spoke to Esmeralda Tovar, a mental health case manager and medication aid at an assisted living facility in Kansas. Well, last week, she met with President Biden in the Oval Office to speak about her experience as a DOCA recipient. We’ll link to last year’s conversation in the show notes, so please be sure to take a listen. Only in America is produced and edited by Katie Lutz, Joanna Taylor, and Becka Wall. Our artwork and graphics are designed by Karla Leyja. I’m Ali Noorani. I will talk to you next week.
Underwriting [00:19:19] Support for the National Immigration Forum comes from the Carnegie Corporation of New York, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement and strengthening international peace and security, and from Humanity United. When humanity is united, we can bring a powerful force for human dignity.