Ali Noorani [00:00:14] Our virtual road trip around Utah continues this week. We’ll listen in as we speak to an author and professor at the University of Utah. We’re going to learn about the unique history and future of Latino communities in the Beehive State. From the National Immigration Forum, I’m Ali Noorani, and this is Only in America.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:00:32] But I think this sense of identity and belonging is increasing, and the simplest thing that is increasing, especially in the new generation of the children of the unauthorized workers. Because, again, these children are reclaiming their rights for their parents and they only do that because they feel that they belong.
Ali Noorani [00:01:00] Dr. Armando Solorzano joins us this week, and once again, our Utahan guests have a lot to teach us. During our conversation, we touched on the growing Latino population in Utah and what that means for the next generation of Utahns. For example, like Bernardo, our guest on last week’s episode. Here’s a fun fact for you: Utah’s Hispanic population grew nearly twenty six percent between 2010 and 2018, which was more than twice as fast as the non-Hispanic white population in the state. And twenty two percent of all Utahns are now nonwhite. That’s one in every five. And it’s even higher among children under 18, at almost twenty seven percent. Dr. Solorzano and I also talked about Utah’s land, and how under the Biden administration, the historical importance of parks and monuments may take on added significance.
Ali Noorani [00:01:54] Dr. Solorzano, thank you so much for joining. I really, really appreciate the time and the opportunity to chat with you. So thank you.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:02:01] You are very welcome, and thank you for opening the space for the population of Utah that we are trying so hard to get into the national image, into the national scope. Thank you.
Ali Noorani [00:02:15] I have to say, I’ve been to Utah a handful of times and it’s just really become one of my my favorite states and favorite communities. So this is just a great opportunity to learn more. So tell me, how did you make your way to to Utah?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:02:29] Well, we came at a time, talking about 30, 35 years ago, when the university was engaging into the issues of diversity, plurality, inclusivity and putting the University of Utah at the national level in conversation with other universities and getting really to this conversation, post civil rights movement and the issue of bringing academia and some color into the university. And also, like in your case, I was always being very attracted by the state of Utah since again, since I was three years old, I learned in my home country that Utah was part Mexican territory. I knew that. And so, you know, as a descendent from indigenous groups in Mexico and they got the great admiration we have for motherland. I want to I want to know and I want to live in this part of the native people that heavily identify with Mexico. So that was one attraction. But the other one was, again, to sort of start a conversation that the history about the state of Utah and it doesn’t start in 1847 with the arrival of the immigrants, of the LDS immigrants, or the Mormon immigrants, that we used to call them. That is there a very rich history here. So all of those reasons brought me to this state, which, again, to me is like coming back to my home land.
Ali Noorani [00:04:20] What was Utah like, you know, when you arrived 30 years ago?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:04:25] Obviously very different. One of the first stereotypes I had to run against is that it was a polygamous state, which at that time it was so prevalent and mainly the state of Utah was identified, known by this overwhelming wrong identification of being a polygamous state. I have to face the lack of diversity in the state. At that time, only 60, only 60000 Latinos live in the state. Of course, the statistics were very different, at that time, because given the religious background of the state, classifications are made differently. So, again, I didn’t know exactly what the population looked like, but certainly they claim there was not an African black population in the state, which it was not accurate. The same thing. They claim that there was not a representative indigenous population, when I know that we have five reservations of the state. So it was interesting, discouraging because I have to fight with this psychological mechanism that is called cognitive dissonance, mainly that you see outside doesn’t coincide with what you know, so I have to struggle with that. I have also to face the reality that the population of color was segregated. There was not much representation in institutions of higher education. There were not many administrators of color. It was at that time, I believe, the population in the state was eighty seven, maybe eight percent LDS. So it was the highest representation of any single denomination by state. So those are the circumstances I found. And then I came from the University of Wisconsin when I was used to a very different type of student population. It was driven by this issue of understanding knowing knowledge, and I have to face the reality that we were pioneering that since introducing new curriculum, new minority groups in the state and starting the research for underrepresented populations in the state.
Ali Noorani [00:07:21] So then as you started to research, what surprised you as you started to do the research of the history of American Mexican Americans in Utah, what are the things that just jumped out and you just were not expecting?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:07:33] Well, first of all, I was very surprised that a Mexican, Mexican American Latinos, they already had a very big presence and a big history in the state. What they did not have was somebody who can write the history. So that was to me was challenging. But most challenging was that even inside the small Mexican-American, Latinos, or like we call them, minutas, Spanish speaking people, even they deny our history. To me, I have learned a new term at that time, it was called it was called internalized oppression, that even the same groups, they deny the presence. And it happened, I mean, like all findings and findings and great discovery just happen by accident. I was interviewing a very old person. I think she was ninety five years old in southern Utah. And I ask, “Can you tell me about your history?” And she said, “I don’t have any history. I only have photos.” Oh. And I said, “Can I see the photos?” Well, she has amazing photos, you know, Mexican, Mexican-American, Hispanics working in the mines, building the railroad, creating the first religious organizations in type of dinivation, either LDS, Mormons, or Catholics or other denominations. So I said, well, can I see the pictures? But the picture were destroyed, you know? And she said, don’t worry, I’m going to put I’m going to put it together with tape. So obviously, we were destroying the pictures at some time and the fact that whatever I knew, it didn’t coincide with what I was seeing.
Ali Noorani [00:09:33] Do you feel like the Latino community in Utah today feels like they belong in Utah?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:09:39] They do. At this particular time. They LDS Latinos, the Mormon Latinos, they, for instance, when you talk about immigration. They don’t understand what you’re talking about as immigrants, because given the whole past that are telling you we are not immigrating, we are returning to a sacred land, meaning now with the Mormon people, right? And they made amazing comparisons. We are coming back to our land because, as Catholics, we want to live close to the Vatican and be close to the pope, as the Muslim went to be close to the areas of faith. So we Latino Mormons are coming to Utah, but we are returning to our sacred land. So, again, you see some of them, they do belong. But I think this sense of identity and belonging is increasing. And that is interesting that it is increasing, especially in the new generation of the children, they are now authorized workers. Because, again, these children are reclaiming their rights for the parents, and they only do that because they feel that they belong. They grew up here. They study here. They offer the best to the state. They have a commitment to the state. So they say this is ours, too. But again, they are in this particular situation that they are doing it for their parents. Right, because the parents are the one who they are trying to to protect. After all, those kids were born here. Some of them were born here. Yeah, there is a very strong sense of identity, belonging, and be part of the whole state. And that is increasing also with the force of the indigenous groups like the youths and the Goshutes and the Navajos that we are trying to look at the time when we were together, right? And so that is open up the lines of communication with all these reservations. And the question that the Native American people raise are very pertinent and inclusive. Like you start the conversation by them asking are you a brother, are you an Aztec, right? And that by itself open up the doors of the reservations, right? So is this sense of inclusivity that, again, is not easy. But I think with education, with an open mind, with the understanding of what is religion and what is spirituality, I think we we’re getting there. We are getting there.
Ali Noorani [00:12:42] At what point do you think the identity that, the way I understand what you’re saying, that is forged, the common identity that’s forged based on religion, on spirituality, on the land. At what point or how does that begin to change the politics of Utah? Because Utah is still seen from a national perspective as a very politically conservative state.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:13:05] Yeah, it opens up a new type of dialog with other political parties. You see how religion is continually brought into the political negotiation, right? To the point, like, again, a large number of undocumented workers in Utah, where Mormons. But so they were Catholics and both of them were immigrants, right? So the two religions or three religions, if you want to consider a Protestant people also, the three religious come together and say, well, we have to deal with this. Here we are very tough, obeying the law, like the Mormon people say, right? We are going there and we are workers. So how we can, through all religions, organize some kind of political organizations or the march that we have in- 2006. The largest in the state.
Ali Noorani [00:14:11] So in other parts of the country, you see politics, religion being increasingly politicized. So that, you know, for some people, their religion is their politics and their politics is their religion, both on the right and the left. How in Utah can that be avoided when it comes to something like immigration, or can it be?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:14:33] The LDS church doesn’t like to have public pronouncements about immigration because they are caught in this dilemma, in this contradiction of being a very law abiding people. Because historically, that’s how they have created their political image in the nation, because the persecution they suffer, right? So they have to have this strong religious figure, all abiding by the law, by the Constitution. But, at the same time, they have to face the reality of this state that the majority are unauthorized workers, belongs to different religious denomination, right? So they don’t take a public stand. They let, they support or the religious organizations, and if it’s the issue of immigration, the Catholic Church take that risk because the Catholic Church by yourself is an immigrant church. Right? I mean, they don’t hide that since the Old Testament. So they take that issue of immigration, come to that, and come and defend the rights of the undocumented workers. But again, we are talking what we call the intersectionality, not only about religion, politics, but now you bring economics.
Ali Noorani [00:16:04] So let’s say we’re having this conversation in 20 or 30 years. How do you see Utah being different in 20 or 30 years, or how do you see it being the same?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:16:17] No, no, no, no. It’s certianly going to be very, very different. Again, one factor, again, going back to religion that we need to take in consideration is that by the year 2035, the majority of Mormons in the world are going to be Latinos. I think we are expecting sixty, about fifty-six, fifty-seven percent of all Mormons in the world. Of course, that is going to be reflected in Utah, in what we already call the Latin section of the LDS church. So the church has to change drastically and in many ways, probably in ways where they don’t want to go. Even the way we understand the geography of the state is going to change. I’ll give you an example. In three, four years, we’re going to celebrate the two thousand two hundred I might, I don’t know, fifth anniversary of the Domínguez-Escalante. Well, we know right now that we’re going to reconstruct all those places because in the past, we lost the names that Dominguez-Escalante expedition had put to the places in Utah. They change it, right? Places like, El Sagrado Corazon, Sacred Heart. They call it Manti, of course, right? But I think even the recognition of the geography has to change. I’m engaged now in two projects with national parks, again, is going to be happeing what is happening in L.A. now, with being the second largest city with Mexicans. So probably Salt Lake City will be the city with the largest Latino Mormon population.
Ali Noorani [00:18:14] It will become a very international city in the next 20 years.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:18:17] Absolutely. And I think we are aware that the signs are already there. Utah is one of the most important gates of entry for immigration, something that we never consider. And in fact, Georgetown University was here several years ago trying to understand how do you do it? Well, officially, also, we are the port of entry of refugees in the nation, one of them, I believe. So from here all the refugees go to different states. But I mean, all the signs are there and as I mentioned before, is that it’s not that we don’t get the history, it’s that there is nobody who writes it with an approach that is more inclusive and egalitarian.
Ali Noorani [00:19:05] Well, I got to say, thank you very much for writing that history. It’s been so interesting to speak with you to listen to. Thank you. But I do have one last question for you. The name of the podcast is Only in America. And the question I ask everybody we talk to is just to finish this sentence: “Only in America…”
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:19:28] I think about it. It’s because the word America is problematic to us, dig in. We recognize we don’t. Again, we just finished reading the book that our, sometimes there are some things in the cultural or the world that we don’t share. But for us, I mean, that’s what I did, I’m sorry. I know that you can edit this, and that is that’s why I pause.
Ali Noorani [00:19:57] You can change the question to “Only in Utah…” how about that?
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:20:00] Only in Utah, we can reclaim our identity as mestizo people, as descendants of their opinions and the native people of this land. We can gain our mestizaje by bringing together people of different religious denomination. Only in Utah, we can claim our mission in this country, and that is that in order to liberate ourselves, we need to liberate those who has oppressed us and by liberating all of us our motherland will be happy to see all the children grow up in unity, in recognition, and in mutual protection of the land.
Ali Noorani [00:20:58] Thank you so much, Dr. Solorzano. I really, really appreciate this.
Dr. Armando Solorzano [00:21:01] Thank you. I appreciated the opportunity.
Ali Noorani [00:21:07] Dr. Armando Solorzano is an author and associate professor at the University of Utah and has been teaching at the U for 30 years. You can learn more about Dr. Solorzano at our website: ImmigrationForum.org/Podcast. Look, if you like what you hear, subscribe to Only in America, wherever you are listening to this episode. Only in America is produced and edited by Katie Lutz. Joanna Taylor, and Becka Wall. Our artwork and graphics are designed by Karla Leyja. Me, I’m Ali Noorani, and I will talk to you next week.
Underwriting [00:21:48] Support for the National Immigration Forum comes from the Carnegie Corporation of New York, supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement and strengthening international peace and security, and from Humanity United. When humanity is united, we can bring a powerful force for human dignity.